Tuesday, March 29, 2011

Washers/Dryers and Dishwashers in BRAZIL

After reading the comment in yellow bold italic below at RACHEL'S RANTINGS IN RIO, I decided to educate myself on the subject of Washers/Dryers and Dishwashers in Brazil.
This information will definitely be useful to me once we are getting ready to move back to Brazil, so I decided to share my findings with you.
Keep in mind every appliance sold in Brazil is MADE IN BRAZIL, which makes them a little bit more expensive than your American counter parts for obvious reasons. Most appliances sold in the United States today are indeed cheaper, but they are MADE IN CHINA and contribute very little to the job situation in the US.
It doesn't bother me too much to buy a MADE IN BRAZIL appliance for more money when I know jobs to make this appliances are employing Brazilians and helping improve the economy.
Brazilian workers have many benefits their Chinese competitors don't have, Brazilian workers enjoy several months paid time off when they have babies, both the mother and the father of the new born, They have a 13th salary, "Fundo de Garantia" which is a hefty amount saved by the company for the employee, sort of like a 401 K, Brazilian companies have to pay "Ticket Refeicao" which means a voucher for lunch. Brazilian workers have the right for transportation to and from work paid by their employers.
The benefits are hefty and they add to the absurd amount of taxes charged by the Brazilian government to keep their fat salaries and pensions and other projects that increase the price of appliances made in Brazil.

So, here we go:
The word for DRYER in Portuguese is SECADORA, for WASHER is LAVADORA and for DISHWASHER is LAVALOUCAS.


LG Washer/Dryer combination to be produced in Paulinia-Sao Paulo
GE-Dishwasher-MADE IN BRAZIL


Brazilian Brastemp-Dishwasher
Zoe said...

...Ray, really? I've lived in Sao Paulo for nearly 4 years and my Paulistano husband has lived here since he was born (and we both do pretty well financially) and we only know of one person who has a dryer. And that person (who does happen to be the American wife of a Brazilian) begged for the dryer and then rarely used it because it took 6 hours to dry a few towels. I would like to have a dryer sometimes, but then I remember that I'm being a lot better to the environment by hanging everything up. I'd love a tumble dryer, something I've never seen here. The dryers that work with condensation that I've seen for sale for a small fortune (and that I used to see when I lived in Europe) just don't cut it for me.

This was my reply to Zoe:

Dear Zoe,

Maybe your husband is trying to save some money and is pulling a fast one on you ;)

Visit some appliance stores or just look online, there are all kinds of appliances for all tastes and all budgets too and they are ALL MADE IN BRAZIL, no CHINESE CRAP WILL BE FOUND.
I don't even know where to begin, you really are living in a different reality.

Let me try...
My father was a Quality Control Engineer for a Whirlpool Factory in Sao Paulo in the late 60's all the way into the late 80's when my father changed jobs. That factory in Sao Bernardo do Campo closed and moved to Sorocaba, Sao Paulo interior.
That factory is called Brastemp today! Have you heard about it? Brastemp makes Tumble style Dryer just like the American ones that dry your clothes in about 50 minutes. You can buy several other types of clothes dryer, some more efficient, some less efficient, some expensive, some cheap, there are all kinds of Dryers to choose from. Bosh, Electrolux, Whirlpool, GE, Prosdocimo and Brastemp among others all have appliances factories scared all over Brazil and you can buy Dryers, Washers, Dishwashers, Stoves, Microwaves, Freezer and Refrigerators at stores all around the country.
Some people who live in small apartments in big cities just don't have the space for dishwashers or washers and dryers, but that is not a Brazilian thing. It is a real LUXURY to have a WASHER or a DRYER in your apartment in New York city, Chicago downtown or Boston for that matter, among many other large American cities.
The same thing might happen to Brazil, I don't know if you live in the Dryer twilight zone, that sounded really funny by the way. But please, What are you trying to prove by saying BRAZIL doesn't have WASHERS or DRYERS anywhere? Really?
You can find absolutely everything in Brazil nowadays, you certainly won't pay the same price as things cost in the US because of the simple fact that things you buy in BRAZIL are MADE IN BRAZIL. I just recently found out our Kenmore Dishwasher was MADE IN CHINA!!! That is why appliances here are so affordable.
Countries make choices! The US choose to buy goods MADE IN CHINA and let the AMERICAN factories and JOBS go to Hell in a hand basket. Now we all can buy everything super cheap here, but there is a HUGE price! Slums are forming all over the US, homeless population is at an all time high! Where are the jobs? CHINA!


To be continued...

Gil and Ray said...

Dear Zoe ( Cont... )

I think I would rather pay a little more for things and keep my factories and jobs around.
My mother grew up in Sao Paulo, at IPIRANGA Region. She told they had HUGE GE Industrial type Washers and Dryers at her School. The Catholic nuns used the machines to wash the girls basketball and volleyball uniforms and the gym's towels.
My grandmother in Sao Bernardo do Campo had a GAS dryer in the late 1950's. Her street was one of the first in her town to have piped underground natural gas installed. Most her neighbors already had dryers back then. I don't know if you are aware, but Sao Paulo had HUGE SEARS stores all over the city until the early 90's when Sears was in trouble and left Brazil.
My grandmother bought her washer/dryer and dishwasher at Sears in the 50's, my grandmother also worked at a material factory and needed those appliances to make her life as a single mother possible.
My mother always had all appliances like dishwasher, washer and dryer, my mother was a teacher and also worked hard all the time and needed the appliances to make her life easier.
You probably live in a part of town where people live in small apartments and just don't have these type of appliances. In these areas, you will see lots of laundromats, you know, just like the ones we see all over Manhattan and Boston, where a lot of people don't have apartments that can fit a Washer or a Dryer for that matter.
My brother lives in a small/ NEW apartment downtown Sao Paulo, 2 blocks from avenida Paulista, he has a set of Bosh Washer and a Gas Dryer and also a Brastemp dishwasher, all made in Brazil.
My sister lives in Santo Andre, in Sao Paulo metro, also has a Washer, a Dryer and a dishwasher. My sister actually has my mother's old Kenmore Dryer, bought at Sears in the early 70's, made in Brazil, great quality gas gas/dryer. My mother gave it to her and she gladly took it because it still works great.
I will be sure to take pictures of all my family's dryers/ washers and dishwashers to show you proof, as soon as I visit them.
I guess I will have to write a post about this appliances controversy so folks thinking about moving to Brazil have their expectations in the right place. :)

Ray

I have moved to the United States back in 1998, so I thought perhaps a few things might have changed regarding Washers/Dryers and Dishwashers for example, so I decided to do a little research.
A quick Google search brought me the list below, it is a list of ALL the appliances manufactures established in Brazil.
Just to mention a few Washer/Dryers and Dishwashers manufacturers:

1- Electrolux was founded in Sao Paulo, Brazil in 1926 and it halted production temporarily during WWII in 1940 to produce air filters exclusively for the war effort, it returns to regular production in 1948 producing Washers and Dryers and vacuum cleaners among other household appliances.
Frigidaire, Gibson, Kelvinator e White-Westinghouse have also operated in Brazil in the past but their factories and operations were purchased and incorporated by Electrolux do Brasil in 1986.

2- CONTINENTAL  is also listed and have recently jointed forces with the German Bosch. However Continental was founded back in 1920 and it grew to be the largest Brazilian appliance manufacturer, it was originally called "Fundicao Brazil", they used to make iron cast wood burning stoves before that, their history goes a long way back. On their website you will find all products available today.

3- BOSCH  do Brasil was founded in 1933, recently jointed forces with the Brazilian "CONTINENTAL". "Bosch" concentrated the production of certain appliances carrying their brand while "Continental" kept others. Bosch has two factories in Brazil, one in the city of Sao Paulo and one in the city of Hortolandia, Sao Paulo state.

4- BRASTEMP is probably the best known appliances manufacturer in Brasil. My father worked at the Brastemp factory in my hometown of Sao Bernardo do Campo when I was growing up. The factory had many plants in my city and closed the largest of them to move production to Sorocaba, Sao Paulo in the late 80's, the executives wanted to move production away from the strong UNIONS in Sao Paulo and prevent the constant strikes for better wages... sounds familiar? The old factory became our town's first Walmart Superstore in the early 1990's.
HERE you can read about Brastemp's History. They produced the first automatic Brazilian Washer in 1959.

5- MAYTAG offers Washers and Dryers in Brazil under the "Tecnowash Brasil" brand and it only has commercial appliances for laundromats or coin operated applications.

6- CONSUL  was founded at the end of WWII, in 1950, at the city of Joinville, Santa Catarina, by Rudolfo Stultzer and his two friends Guilherme Holderegger and Wittich Freitag, yeah, that is how German south of Brazil is, I made sure to write their names here to show you just that :)
The first appliance made was a refrigerator. A few years later they were making 30,000 Refrigerators per year and exporting appliances to other countries.
Stultzer and his friends borrowed money from one of Joinville's richest businessman, Mr. Carlos Renaux, who was also a Consul for Brazil, in Arnheim, Holland, so the three friends decided to name their new appliance brand "Consul" in honor of Mr. Renaux.

7- GE do BRASIL  long story short, GE joined Brazilian DAKO and formed MABE BRASIL, with two factories in Brasil, one in Campinas, Sao Paulo and one in Itu, Sao Paulo and a third factory in San Luis, Argentina, which formed MABE Mercosul, after the purchase of the Argentinian Kronen. The 3 plants in Brazil and Argentina employ 3000 people and produce 2,7 million appliances per year which are exported to 50 different countries around the world.

8- Samsung do Brasil  is somewhat new in Brazil, it sure wasn't there when we still lived in Sao Paulo back in 1998, but it is there now, they actually entered Brazil in 2000, HERE is a historical brief of Samsung Brasil.

9- LG do BRASIL is also new to Brazil. It arrived in 1995 with two factories, one in Manaus, Amazonas where LG makes Cell phones, Laptop computers and notebooks and one in Taubate, Sao Paulo where they make LE and LCD TVs besides Blue Ray DVDs.
LG is now investing 500 million dollars in a new factory in Paulinia, Sao Paulo, where our fellow blogger Nina from NINA DIASPORA OF THE SKY lives.
HERE is the report from a Sao Paulo Newspaper, the new factory will employ 4000 workers and will surpass Petrobras as that town's main employer, the new Paulinia factory will be dedicated to the production of appliances such as Refrigerators, Stoves, Freezers, Microwaves, Washers/Dryers and Dishwashers.

Below is a link that lists all the appliances manufactures present in Brazil, not only the ones that produce washers and dryers and dishwashers but also all sorts of other appliances for your home, the beauty of it, ALL MADE IN BRAZIL:  :)

http://www.eletrodomesticosforum.com/fabricantes.htm

Now, I have to make a special mention of my favorite appliance of all. It is a miniature WASHER, the add says "Underwear Washer", now, how cool is that, a Washer only for your underwear.
The site says it is formulated for delicate materials like women lingerie and silk, socks and such. It is portable and you can place it over your bathroom sink.
MINILAV 's web site is here.
Below is a picture:


Portable Mini Lingerie Washer-MADE IN BRAZIL
 I really don't understand why some people are under the impression that Washers/Dryers and Dishwashers are not very common in Brazil. They have always been a common presence at my parents house. Our neighbors, friends, relatives, not a big deal at all.
My mother's neighborhood has piped natural gas, my parents have lived in the same place since 1976, it was already there when they bought the place, all our neigbors had gas dryers and most had dishwashers.
Perhaps, the folks who say they haven't seen Washer/Dryers or Dishwashers around live in areas where they are not very common, like near downtown of big cities, where apartments are smaller/older and Washer/Dryers and Dishwashers are somewhat rare, the exact same thing happens in New York city or Boston for example and let me tell you, you won't find Washer/Dryers and Dishwashers in Europe that easy either. Same goes for Toronto or Tokyo for that matter, where these appliances are just a rare luxury.
Sao Paulo and Rio are no different.
You go out to the suburbs and it is a completely different story.
Middle class Brazilians have the same appliances at their suburban homes as American, Canadian or European house holds.

34 comments:

Rachel said...

I will say that they are expensive though. I can't seem to bring myself to drop R$900 on a dryer that I don't really need. In Rio clothes will dry and most cotton bought here will shrink in the dryer!

Dishwashers... that'd be nice and I know exactly where I'd put it. Of course, I just have to get it put in...

Gil and Ray said...

Rachel,

I hear you, you guys have better weather in Rio, they are desperately needed in Sao Paulo where my parents live.
Also, my mother was always careful with what clothes could go into the dryer and what she couldn't to avoid shrinkage.
American clothes are easier in the dryer than Brazilians, that is absolutely correct.
I am excited with the NEW LG plant being built in Paulinia, they are gonna bring some mean competition into the appliances landscape and maybe we could see a price drop in the appliances war.
They will have the new factory up and running before Christmas. :)

Ray

The Reader said...

Ray, I have to tell you, things have apparently changed.

Price is extremely high for a washer, dryer, dishwasher, etc. And they are NOT as widespread as you seem to remember. In my (very large, new, spacious) apartment when we were in Cambui -- no one had a dryer but me. In my (Brazilian, not full of ex-pats) condominio in a small suburb outside of Campinas -- none of the neighbors I know have a dryer, yet I do see clothesline in everyone's back yard.

Dryers in particular, more than the others, are EXPENSIVE. I got the largest (10.2 kg capacity) Brazilian (Brastemp) dryer I could find without bumping up into the next price bracket -- 3.5 years ago, this dryer cost me R$1200. And it takes THREE HOURS to dry my clothes. (it is a tumble dryer like the girl you quoted says she has never seen).

The dryers you talk about, drying clothes with short cycles, cost THOUSANDS of Reais, Ray. Thousands. If I was willing to pay em vezes, which I'm not, I could get one. But even here, even on my husband's American salary, we simply won't spend that much money for a bit more efficient machine.

My Brastemp washer was perhaps R$700 or R$900, and we bought the absolute tiniest oven we could find as well as the smallest refrigerator that would accomodate our family, just to afford that R$1200 dryer. My oven was R$500 and the fridge, not sure.

I did not price dishwasher as my apartment didn't even have space/location for a hookup (nor does the house I rent now). They both DID have dryer hook-up (electric dryer) though of course no way to vent the dryer. We had to buy extra long vent tube and hang it out the window, rather than heat up/humidify our laundry area.

I realize you are from here, but you've been gone a long time. Don't be so quick to contradict those of us living here, now, and telling what we see, now. Things have, apparently, changed.

Gil and Ray said...

Dear Reader,

I understand what you are saying. But please let me make clear that I am not trying to contradict what anyone is saying.
I am not trying to imply that anyone is exagerating or anything else, just honestly trying to understand the differences in the different parts of Brazil where people live well without dryers for example, perhaps better warmer/dryer weather would help. Sometimes folks in bigger cities live in smaller or older apartments with no room for dishwashers or Dryers.
The prices you mentioned didn't sound so terrible. Perhaps about the same price of appliances in the US if you apply the exchange rate.
I totally agree you will have to pay more for a top of the line appliance in Brazil.
My aunt just bought a top of the line GE Dryer, which is exactly like the American ones in quality/capacity, she did pay
R$4,500.00, not cheap, she is not rich, but my aunt doesn't have a car paying, rent or mortgage, so she can afford something like that...
I grew up in Sao Bernardo do Campo, in the outskirts of Sao Paulo, in the metro area, but sort of half way between Sao Paulo and Santos, and trust me, if you don't have a DRYER in my town, your clothes will smell moldy before they dry in the clothes line.
Again, perhaps, if your town is warmer/dryer than Sao Bernardo, which I am almost sure it is, Dryers are not a must like where my parents live.
Sao Bernardo usually has fog almost every afternoon, it drizzles a lot, very humid and cold.
I will take pictures of my mother's, my brother's, my aunt's, my grandma's, my sister's and their neighbors dishwashers and dryers and post on here... ;)
Just wait until I get down to Brazil and we will have the second part of this post, a photographic tour of kitchens and laundries of Brazilians who own dishwashers and dryers ;)

Ray

Gil and Ray said...

One more thing, I found out on the GE website that they MADE and SOLD in BRAZIL 2.7 million appliances last year, in 2010.
That is a lot of appliances, I don't know the percentage of Dryers or Dishwashers, but a lot of people must have bought new ones last year, and that is only one brand.

Gil and Ray said...

Dear Reader,

A friend of mine who recently got married got this combo washer/dryer at "Submarino" online for U$1,145.00 or R$1,999.00, not bad, this Brastemp looks pretty good and my friend already gave me good reviews on it.
Here is the link:

http://www.submarino.com.br/produto/27/21823760/lavadora+e+secadora+ative+bws24as+-+7+kg+-+preta+-+brastemp#

By the way, my friend just moved back to Brazil from the Detroit area and was used to good ol'American washers/Dryers, she loved this Brastemp, so when we go back we would definitely go with this one.
Please let me know if anyone else has any comments/reviews about this Brastemp combo. Thanks

Ray

Jim said...

It's all WAY too expensive for my blood. It's applea and oragnes to say the prices are almost the same if you apply the exchange rate. How about applying the exchange rate on salaries!? I made more in a day back in SF than I make in a week here. So the prices, in real terms, are freaking expensive.

I just went to teach a class this morning in a palacial apartment right on the beach, ninth floor, fantastic view. They might have a dryer...

Among all of my friends and family I have never seen one in anyone's house.

But I know that São Paulo can be a different world...

Rachel said...

That's exactly it Jim! If we made what we make here, in dollars, there, we'd be living it really freaking easy! But money does not go as far here. And you don't make as much as you would in a similar position there. Hell, look at pizza delivery drivers. You can make some good change in the US. I doubt they'd say the same thing here.

The Reader said...

Thanks for the link to the submarino, Ray. If I tire of 3 hour drying times, I might look into it. A bigger refrigerator is first on my list, though.

And, I'm with Jim. You can't really compare prices at exchange rate unless you consider the pay as well. Seriously, even on my husband's american salary, I would not pay R$4500 for a dryer. We paid less than that for TWO brand new, high quality sofas. Less than HALF of that!

Also -- my dryer. R$1200. About $700 US. I can get an extra-large capacity 7.3 cu ft front load dryer Kenmore, dries small loads in 30 minutes!, multiple dry cycles to choose from for the same price. Link below.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02680272000P?vName=Appliances&cName=Washers+%26+Dryers&sName=Dryers

Compared to my single dry cycle, set the time for 180 mins, medium capacity, no bells/whistles dryer.

A basic dryer 'similar' to what I have would be $400 TOPS in the US. Maybe less. Heck, my $400 Kenmore from home is a BETTER dryer than the one I have here which I paid US $700 for.

That is NOT the same price. But I AM very grateful to have it -- it does rain a bit more here than in Rio, and especially in the apartment with no outside space/sun to utilize, it would be a pain to dry clothes on the line. I do a load a day to keep up with my family, and cannot wait for decent weather to hang dry (nor fit a full load of my family's clothes out on the line in my very small backyard anyway). So, the dryer was to us a necessary splurge. But SPLURGE is the key word there. We sacrificed other things to afford the dryer, something we would never have had to do in the US (on the same salary).

The Reader said...

Oh, and I'll be interested to see the pics of your families dryers, not because I want proof -- I believe you! -- but because I am curious about these things. Appliances here are WAY different than in the US, all the way around, until you hit that R$4500 price bracket -- no thanks.

I will say -- as slow as my dryer is, it does use far less energy than a US dryer. I do like that part of things.

SN said...

Ray-

I have the Brastemp washer/dryer combo plus an additional tumble dryer along with one large refrigerator. Of course all provided by the company :). Any way the quality for the price would not be worth it to spend our own money.

Brastemp washer/dryer: Works great with a basketball size load. The speed cycle last for 1hr and the heavy duty for 2.5hrs then to fully dry the clothes another 4hrs. Our clothes are beat to hell but I don't have to iron when I am done. I have managed to work with it as long as I stay on top of the laundry which is every morning.

Brastemp tumble dryer: Sucks. Thats all I can say. A basketball size load of laundry takes 4hrs to dry and then it comes out terribly wrinkly. I tried to use it a couple of times to cut down on the time used with the combo but ended up costing me more time. I won't even use it with my towels because it makes them rough even with softener. Basically it sits in a corner and collects dust for Claudia to clean :0

Brastemp Refrigerator: We priced the one the company gave us R5,000+.... ouch. I do have not complaints with it though. I wish it made ice but then again I understand why it doesn't.

Of my friends, mostly expats, all have washers, dryers, and a few have dishwashers. They never use the dryers because they don't work and so most of the clothes are line dried. Even the dishwashers are not worth it from what I have been told. Most everyone still washes everything by hand. This comes from a community where things are paid for by companies so money really isn't to big of a deal. The products are the problem from the experience that I have.

Sara

Jim said...

Ray - I've been scouting out some information online for how to best understand the "translation" of the cost of living between countries. It's a bit complicated and I'm not sure I will do a post, as you are the master of the long post, not me. But if I can chisel it down to its core ideas, I just might.

Anyway, it seems there is something called "Salary Purchacing Power" that looks at what you can earn and then what you can buy with it. So we would need to look at the "Salary Purchacing Power Parity" to get a better sense of "comparable costs" for things like washers and dryers.

Interesting stuff. Explaining it may be difficult -- but I can FEEL it just fine - no need for assistance. Shit is expensive in Brazil!

Meredith said...

Well, I can only hope that the school I'll be working for in Brasilia will supply me with a washing machine (I don't need a dryer - especially in BSB); although a dishwasher is convenient and I'd like one :), it's not necessary.

I've never seen a dryer in Manaus and don't know anyone there who has one. I've never seen a dishwasher either, but since most people have hired help it didn't seem to be a problem. I don't think there's an issue with not having a dryer in Manaaus because even though it's humid beyond belief there, clothes do dry relatively quickly.

I'm currently in the U.S. and still prefer to hang dry my clothes than to put them in the dryer. Maybe it's weird, but that's my preference. I grew up in upstate NY and my mom always dried our clothes outside during the summer (and she still does). My sister now does the same thing with her family. I then spent years in Latin America - Bolivia, Peru, Uruguay, Brazil - and I never had a dryer in any of those countries, so I became accustomed to not using one. I think hang drying them is better for the clothes and there is no risk of them shrinking.

Whether or not we're provided with a dryer in BSB, I probably won't use it (though my husband more than likely will).

* I have to add that it's just my husband and I (we don't have kids, yet), so maybe my opinion would change if there were more than 2 people living in my house.

Gil and Ray said...

Jim,

I hear you, it is frustrating, the purchasing power in Brazil fluctuates a lot, and recently has become more and more unfavorable to most people.
It was a completely different situation when I lived and worked in Brazil back in the 90's.
In 2002, the US dollar was about 4 to 1 and it was AWESOME to spend money in Brazil, our US dollars would buy the world, not anymore :(
Today, the dollar is worth nothing, it's pathetic, it is tough for me to rent cars when I travel to travel, absurdly expensive and I am completely lost when it comes to prices of just about everything.
You are correct, we can't compare apples to oranges and just apply the FX to the price of appliances, salaries would have to count in to make sense...

Ray

PS: Yes, agree, Sao Paulo and Rio are really two worlds apart in many aspects...

Gil and Ray said...

Dear Sara,

Thanks for your review/comments on the Brastemp dryer. It does sound like Brazilian appliances have gone to hell in a hand basket when it comes to quality in the past 15 years.
My mother's gas dryer is a Brastemp built in the 80's, still works great, it looks just like the ones in the US, large capacity, powerful, it takes about 50 minutes to dry a huge load.
I don't know what was the purchasing power 20 some years ago when she bought hers, but the equivalent today it's almost 5K Reais, it really wasn't this absurd back in those days, her Brastemp dishwasher looks just like the ones in the US, she bought it sometime in the 90's.
My brother and his wife have a Bosch stackable set or Washer and Dryer, they got theirs for a wedding gift back in 2003. They also have a Brastemp dishwasher, given to them by my grandmother as a wedding gift back in 2003.
Come to think, most Brazilians I know, aquired their major appliances "via wedding gifts"... which will not be happening to Gil and I, perhaps we should organize a wedding party to shake down our families for appliances ;)
I guarantee you, I will be bringing all my appliances from the US after all the testimonies I have been reading here regarding price and quality of these large appliances in Brazil right now.
Thanks again for sharing your review/comments on the Brastemp machines.


Ray

Gil and Ray said...

Jim,

I hear you "loud and clear" :)
And totally agree with you, stuff is UBBER expensive in Brazil, there is no doubt about that...
This idea for post for a on "purchasing power" would be GREAT and it would help a lot of people, including ME, I left Brazil almost 15 years ago and I really have no idea what it "feels" like to buy things there with a salary!
Let's do it, please let me know if I can help, we could do this post together.


Ray

Gil and Ray said...

Dear Meredith,

Some of our neighbors here in Rhode Island also line dry their laundry. Our neighbor across the street loves it and tells me she likes the way stuff smells, it supposed to smell a lot better if it is hand dry.
You are correct, Brasilian is super dry, you probably won't need a dryer, a dishwasher is always nice. You should probably consider bringing some of your appliances with you from the US, considering the prices and quality described by the expats living in Brazil now. I know we will.


Ray

Jim said...

Ray - my student load has exploded in the last week, so I will need time to organize the post on purchacing power. I agree, it would be helpful to many.

Also - be careful about bringing appliances from the US. I have had friends who did this, but then when something broke down they could not get replacement parts and the repair guy was not familiar with the model. Also, you void the warranty when you carry stuff like that across the border.

It may still be worth it, but consider these things as well.

Some friends have done it and are very glad they did (because they have not had any problems as yet).

We just decided to "go local" and live without.

Gil and Ray said...

Jim,

No worries, let me know when you have a little break and we could work a the "purchasing power" post, I would love to learn more about it.
I hear you on the parts, "assistencia tecnica", that is a good point. Forget the warranties, absolutely, that would go out the window.
Maybe I should just trow a "Big Brazilian Wedding" and shake down the relatives for a complete set of appliances.
Trust me on one item, a DRYER is a lifesaver in Sao Paulo, the weather sucks, it is drizziling, chilly, foggy and humid most of the time, it also depends if your apartment faces the morning sun, the afternoon sun, in Sao Paulo, the way your apartment faces is very important or mold prevention.
Clothes will literally start to smell like mold on the line before they dry... :(


Ray

SN said...

Jim a post on the purchasing power would be amazing! Sometimes I wish that I would have purchased a car as soon as we got here to get the most out of our money...

Ray- Throw a wedding shower! How great would that be? You and Gil both missed out years ago and now that you are coming back home with open arms it only seems right :) Also, just because the appliances are not the best doesn't mean that my quality of life has depreciated. A few changes here and there and I don't even notice. If you decide to bring your stuff down make sure it's worth the cost of shipping....

Sara

Danielle said...

Wow, what a debate! I think it's important to consider that everyone's definitions of "cheap" and "expensive" are different, people's priorities are different, people's social circles are different, etc. I think that Meredith had a really good point when she mentioned the part about having maids. I think that many people in Brazil may consider a dryer an unnecessary investment if they already have a maid in the house who gets a fixed salary and who can line dry and iron the clothes. For example, my doctor in-laws have more than enough money for dryers and dishwashers, and my mother-in-law even wants to buy a dryer, but my father-in-law says that it's totally unnecessary, because the maids (plural) are there all day anyway. So I guess it's just people doing things the way they did it before.

I'd like to end this on a happy note-- when we moved to our new place, we sold our 15-year-old hand-me-down washing machine and bought a brand new one! It's small (but fine because it's just the two of us)and it works really well. We can put the bleach and fabric softener in at the beginning (not an option in the old machine), we have more than one type of wash cycle, and we have a filter to collect the cat hair. Luxury! We paid 900 reais for it. You can decide if that's expensive or not.

Gil and Ray said...

Danielle,

I think you make a very good point!
I have arrived to the conclusion that I grew up in a part of Sao Paulo where most people live in apartaments, plus the weather is usually crappy, foggy, cloudy and humid and as per my mother's words, a DRYER is a life saver, it really is a must have, not a luxury, so many people, if not most, do have DRYERS.
It makes total sense not to want to buy a dishwasher, expensive or not, if you already have a full time maid, that is a cultural thing too. Full time maids were not too common were I grew up, most women worked, people only had "faxineiras" once or twice a week and dishwashers were a must to help in the house hold chores.
I am telling you, this discussing was an eye opener for me, pricewise, I will be sure to go to town on a Sears Sale and buy every appliance for our new Brazilian home, when we get ready to move back...and just bring everything with us...
I might be able to buy all the appliances at Sears for the price of a good "MADE IN BRAZIL" DRYER. :)
Thank God for CHEAPER MADE IN CHINA stuff!


Ray

Born Again Brazilian said...

Ok, so knowing that I've contributed in a small way to employment in Brazil makes me feel a little bit better about my overpriced stove that still doesn't work after three visits from the repair guy. :)

We actually considered a dryer, or one of those washer/dryer combinations, but my mother-in-law has one and it takes 5+ hours for the entire process... about the same time without a dryer.

Gil and Ray said...

Dear Born Again Brazilian,

What is the name brand of your non working stove? :)
Thanks for sharing your MIL's Washer/Dryer review, it sounds like the one Sara described, the Brastemp combo, I will be sure to stay away from that one.
My brother and his wife have the Bosch stackable Washer/Dryer and they are really happy with their Dryer, it only takes about 50 minutes to dry a good load, I don't know how much they paid for the set, they actually got it as a wedding gift in 2003.
My mother told me the GOOD Dryer is really in the 4500 Reais range, that is why she is keeping her 1971 Whirlpool Gas Dryer that still works great!
If you think about it, in 2003, those good dryers were worth about U$1000,00, I know as per Jim's point, we have to factor in salary purchasing power. I am just mentioning the price point as a reference and as an explanation for the PRICES to be so out of wack. The US dollar is unfairly beeing kept low so PETROBRAS can...well, that is a discussion for another post... :)
I will tell you one thing, we will be bringing our appliances from the US, unless the Real losses value again and our DOLLARS can buy the good appliances in Brazil. ;)


Ray

ojeitobrasileiro said...

active post. We went for a dryer. I find that it does suck, as lint is always inside of it that I have to wipe out, or it gets over all of our clothing. It takes 6 hours to dry a Regular load, unless of course I do a small load. However, being as rainy and wet as Sao Paulo is, I find that running the dryer for a bit, then hanging the clothing to dry, let me get more loads done, and the clothing hang dries much faster...and no being here a year we were not going to spring for a super duper fancy model.

Gil and Ray said...

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!!! 6 HOURS!!!
Which brand/model did you get?
Please let me know which one to avoid... :(
We will most likely bring our American Set anyway, but just in case, I would like to know what dryer did you get that doesn't have a lint trap and it takes 6 hours for a regular load!

Ray

Jim said...

Thought of you yesterday, Ray. I was at that student's ginormous apartment I mentioned earlier. He (single rich businessman) has a HUGE refrigerator, stainless steel, with some kind of touch screen on the freezer door and a water dispenser in the lower door.

I could not figure out what was going on with all the buttons on the screen, except they seemed to be there basically to LOOK complicated, but had little function.

The water dispenser threw me for a loop. You put your glass on the little shelf and push a button to dispense the water. BUT -- there is no water line that goes to the fridge. There is a little (2L?) reservoir on the inside of the door that you have to fill by hand. So it chills and filters the water, but you have to prime the pump.

No automatice ice maker, either (and no ice dispensed from the door).

So this monster of a fridge that "LOOKS" like a fancy model, basicall does nothing -- but I'm sure it cost a fortune.

So be sure to check under the hood when shopping for appliances, if you wind up doing that locally.

Gil and Ray said...

Jim,

That is so funny, so the guy had a fake fancy refrigerator...lol...
Yeah, the more I hear, the more I am convinced to go to Sears and get the whole package of appliances and stuff it in that container... ;)

Renato S. Alves said...

Hi Ray
I've been reading a lot of your posts. This blog is awesome! I will try to read everything though.
I want to tell my experience in this matter.
The thing I hate most in my life is to hang up clothes and finaly now I'm living in a country where I don't need to do it anymore.In winter in SP clothes can take 3 days to dry!!
I was impressed when you said your mother had a dryer in the 50's!? We lived in a small citie in Brazil from 79-86. The city had 10 thousand people and not a single one had never saw a dryer. Even the rich people!
Before I leave Brazil in 2009 my father spent 2.800 reais to buy a washer/dryer combo. This is a lot of money! He already had a Brastemp Dryer 2 years old which take 3 hours to dry clothes, that's why he bought another. Well this one (eletrolux) take even more.
Even if you have the money to buy one you are going to spend a lot in electricity. In Orlando the kwh is 12 cents. In Brazil it can cost 50 cents of the real!! Woooooo?!
My father eletric bill is 500 reais for 1000kwh. Here they payed 280 for 2230 kwh !! What a difference! Brazil is a joke Ray! Only rich people have easy life.

Also in Brazil, most of the things are more expansive not because they are made in Brazil. It's because of taxes. You can see that even the same "made in China" products and appliances are 3, 4, 5 times than here. For example a tax in a microwave here is 6,5%. In Brazil is 60%!!
I think this site is very interesting if you want to write a post about power of purchasing

http://www.quantocustaobrasil.com.br/site/

I also wrote in my blog about the cost of living here x Brazil. I give you permission to steal some ideas! :)

Congrats Ray, the blog is awesome!
Let me read other posts :)
Bye!!

Ray and Gil said...

Dear Renato,

Thanks for your comment.
The information you shared here with us today, just comes to prove that Brazil is a HUGE countries with many different realities.
I was born and raised in Sao Bernardo do Campo, a middle class town just outside of Sao Paulo capital. In Sao Bernardo, every one I ever knew, had a dryer at home, most people live in small apartments or small town homes and we didn't have outside space for hanging clothes to dry "au natural" and even if we did have space, Sao Bernardo is right on the "Serra do Mar" and it is VERY HUMID, it drizzles everyday, all year round.
Dryers are a necessity, not a luxury. My father bought a Dryer when I was a baby, in the early 70's, my parents still have that same dryer, working very well, and it doesn't take 3 hours at all, it takes about 50 minutes to dry a large load of clothes.
My parents have lived in the same apartment for 34 years now, the building was built in 1974, and it already had piped NATURAL GAS from the street, ready hook ups in every apartment, so their DRYER wasn't electric and it didn't cost a fortune to use, we were not RICH, my father is an Engineer, middle class, we never had a problem maintaining and using our GAS-DRYER.
My mother grew up in the neighborhood of IPIRANGA, in the city of Sao Paulo and my grandmother and her neighbors had GAS DRYERS in the 1950's, and most of their neighbors in IPIRANGA had GAS DRYERS too, they were expensive, they were usually either General Electric or Electrolux, the GE factory is in GUARULHOS and the ELECTROLUX factory is in IPIRANGA, the DRYERS were expensive but not impossible for the middle class to purchase them, people usually paid them in several installments.
You are correct, the taxes in Brazil are crazy, but the main factor for the high cost are the "COST BRAZIL" which includes taxes but has a HUGE weight from all the rights Brazilian workers enjoy that are not available for workers in China.
Products from China pose an absolute unfair situation both for products made in the US and in BRAZIL, I am glad Brazil keep up their high taxes and protect their industry. We don't want to see happening in Brazil what has happened with the US industry.
Hey, thanks for your comment and it's great to see you reading our blog.

Ray

prolix said...

Its is really nice Dishwashers in model that I saw in ur blogs.

Anonymous said...

Ray, amazing post, full of information for somebody looking to learn about appliances in Brazil. A question for you - you showed a link to the LG factory being built (in Portugese, i couldnt read it)....does anybody know if construction has actually begun on this factory? There are American companies saying that it has not and that it will not begin producing appliances until 2014 at the earliest because the construction hasn't even started. Any idea? Thanks. Awesome blog.

Ray and Gil said...

Dear Anon,

Thanks for your comment.
I am not sure on the status of the construction of the new LG factory in Brazil. I will try to find out some information and get back to you.
This is what I know. Brazil needs 90 Thousand new engineers every year to keep up with the country's growth, but it's universities can only graduate 30 thousand a year.
I wouldn't be surprised if this is true and they won't be able to get this factory ready until 2014. Civil Engineers are the biggest gap in the supply and demand chain.
The country is giving out VISA's to engineers from all over the world.
The biggest country to contribute with professionals right now is the USA.


Thanks again for your comment.
I will share anything I find out about this.

Abracos

Ray

Washer Dryer Combo Stack said...

LG Washer/Dryer combination to be produced in Paulinia-Sao Paulo ... twasherdryercombo.blogspot.com